What did Republicans learn from 2016? What are Republican consultants and digital operatives learning and trying in 2020? To get a peek into how the other side is thinking about the digital space, Tara sat down with Eric Wilson, the editor of the digital politics newsletter "Learn, Test, Optimize."
What did Republicans learn from 2016? What are Republican consultants and digital operatives learning and trying in 2020? To get a peek into how the other side is thinking about the digital space, Tara sat down with Eric Wilson, the editor of the digital politics newsletter "Learn, Test, Optimize." Produced by Wonder Media Network.
Tara McGowan: Hey, welcome back to For What It's Worth, I'm Tara McGowan. If you're here listening, you likely care about politics and are interested in how the internet - and how campaigns use the internet - is influencing our elections. Maybe you're a Democrat like me, maybe you're not and maybe I'll get into some hot water with some of our listeners for bringing this week's guest on the show. I hope not, but here goes anyhow. This week I sat down with veteran Republican digital strategist, Eric Wilson, who's also the editor of Learn, Test, Optimize, a newsletter about political digital strategy and tactics, a newsletter I read because of how I learned about Eric not too long ago, and a very useful resource for anyone in this line of work regardless of party. The reason I wanted to speak with Eric is because for one, I think it's really important that progressives and Republicans talk to each other more generally. And two, I think it's important that progressives learn more about how the other side thinks about digital strategy so we can be better equipped to beat them. So Eric, thank you so much for showing up.
Eric Wilson: It's good to be here with you, Tara.
Tara McGowan: You are my first Republican on.
Eric Wilson: And hopefully not the last, so there's a lot riding on this.
Tara McGowan: I do want to talk about how we met though. So we have a few things in common. Obviously we're both quote unquote digital folks and we both run a newsletter about digital and politics.
Eric Wilson: It's a very small overlapping Venn diagram. So we just had to meet.
Tara McGowan: How did you decide to start LTO?
Eric Wilson: I started it as the Marco Rubio for president campaign was wrapping up. I wanted a way to be able to stay in touch with everyone I had met and worked with and also saw this idea of highlighting examples to make people better, because I really am a big believer in best practices and just how much that can pull us along. And so the, and it was also a limit to how many campaigns I can work on personally, but the newsletter offers me that scale. So it's a great opportunity to start conversations with lots of interesting people like you.
Tara McGowan: I have to admit though that I have been a big fan of LTO since you started it and it definitely helped inspire For What It's Worth.
Eric Wilson: Well that's nice to hear, and I'm a big fan of For What It's Worth. So I'm glad to hear that some good came out of LTO and obviously a big fan of the work that you're doing on your side of the aisle.
Tara McGowan: See, Republicans and Democrats can find common ground.
Eric Wilson: We're both fighting the same battles on both sides of our aisle.
Tara McGowan: Exactly. And that's exactly what I want to dig into. So tell our audience a little bit about what those battles are.
Eric Wilson: You know, just to reframe it, what I like to talk about all the time is that Republican and Democrat campaigns are like Darwin's finches. We grew up on different islands solving different problems and evolved separately. But at the end of the day, the laws of physics are still the same. You still have, you know, we work in an industry, right, where no one is to criticize you for doing the thing that has been done and has been working for the last 10 years. Where you get into trouble is when you try something new and unproven and untested. And so that's what we were both kind of at the cutting edge of.
Tara McGowan: That's right. And you're certainly not going to change your ways if it's also, you know, how you make your money.
Eric Wilson: Exactly. So that's one thing that I think we, I was surprised to learn this is also an issue on the Democrat side. And when you're a strategist who sells something, it's very frequent that your strategy suggestion aligns with how you make your money.
Tara McGowan: Absolutely. And I think that's, I think that's absolutely true in any industry to your point. But I do think when you're working in the high-stakes world of politics where really the impact is severe and it affects how people get to live their lives. There's also, you know, the power plays a very big role and influence. And I think that that's something we talked about a great deal is that it isn't just that, you know, the best TV consultants, you know, don't want to let go of TV and evolve into digital. It's also that they, for a very long time and still in large part, continue to be the messaging strategists for candidates, right? And so, you know, even though the world has changed those relationships and that influence has not.
Eric Wilson: Exactly, and I think, you know, one of the really interesting things to me is that from the digital side, because we can measure so many things, we're often asked to prove the effectiveness of what we do. And no one asks that question to the people who have been doing the same thing for the last 20 years.
Tara McGowan: They sure don't, and maybe even more frustrating to me is that when you are able to prove something, it isn't really changing anything, because they're only asking as a diversion.
Eric Wilson: Right, so it's sort of like, you know, the sort of sales tactic of, well, if I can fix this for you, would you be on board? And even then they don't change their mind. And one of the reasons I am glad you are doing such a great job on your side is because I get to hold you up as a boogeyman and say, look at what we have to be doing on our side to be as good as they are. And I think sometimes, some things that we do are, are a helpful boogeyman for you. And so, you know, there's a reason that you run faster when you're running against someone. And, so that's, I think that's very important.
Tara McGowan: Absolutely. And I would say the same. I mean, we don't even need to hold Trump up. He holds himself up, right? All of his communication is really driven online. Whether it's Twitter to drive the media narrative or it's through pumping money into Facebook and ads. And so would you say that that Trump has also helped your case in the Republican Party?
Eric Wilson: Well, it really is very helpful because you know, I can now just say you should be like the Trump campaign and I really hold them up as a model. I mean the fact that they're spending more than people who are fighting a primary online and really focused on building this grassroots fundraising behemoth, and they really do have the theory of the case that if they can build direct contact information in that getting their supporters to become donors is like banking votes before election day. And so it's a phenomenal strategy. I'm just surprised that more Republicans aren't going that way.
Tara McGowan: To talk about Trump specifically for a little bit longer, I mean, he, the incumbent president has always had the advantage of the bully pulpit. I think Trump takes that to a very different level. And to your point about the investment that they're making in digital ads and growing the supporter base, they have such an unbelievable runway and advantage over whoever becomes the Democratic nominee.
Eric Wilson: Right. And that's the real struggle, right, because when, when you have a crowded primary field of 20 people, speaking with experience of someone from the 2016 primary field, you know, you're worried about living another day, you can't plan for the future. So it's a huge disadvantage. However, you know, we're seeing that these tools of disruption are changing the calculus. And so, you know, the fact that Hillary Clinton had a much more impressive infrastructure in place in 2016 ultimately didn't help her out because the Trump campaign was so insurgent and was involved in this sort of asymmetrical battle with the Clinton folks. So I wouldn't despair too early if I were a Democrat, but also I think you're right to sort of encourage your side to think about the long term. You know, what happens after Iowa and South Carolina.
Tara McGowan: Yeah. And who I'm so curious, who do you think on the Democratic side is, is running a really smart digital campaign?
Eric Wilson: So I've been really impressed with the DNC's debate requirements for grassroots fundraising.
Tara McGowan: I was gonna ask you about that, I think that it's become quite controversial.
Eric Wilson: From the Republican side, I think it's the smartest thing that DNC has ever done. I wish we would have something like that on our side.
Tara McGowan: I agree entirely. I think it was a very smart move and I get asked about it all the time, so yeah.
Eric Wilson: And it's forcing campaigns to invest in that infrastructure of grassroots fundraising. Not just the, everyone focuses on how much is being spent on the ads. But if you think about the copywriting, the customer support, the websites. And so one of the things that I'm doing right now is going through all of the campaigns and looking at their conversion funnels to see how they're piecing this together.
Tara McGowan: And what is a conversion funnel, Eric?
Eric Wilson: Well, so the conversion funnel is the process, the journey that a supporter goes from becoming aware of a candidate to then supporting them either as a volunteer but hopefully as a donor. So, I've been really impressed with, with Elizabeth Warren's conversion funnel because she is so content-focused and is driving people to her website, and once you're signed up has the most sort of, I'm not sure what you would call the mechanic, but moving people along that engagement ladder. So if you show the tiniest bit of interest in Elizabeth Warren, they are going to pull you all the way through. And so I've been really impressed with that.
Tara McGowan: And you can see her campaign spending on Facebook and Google have risen steadily.
Eric Wilson: Well, I've also been really impressed with Pete Buttigieg. I think, you know, the, the proof is in the pudding on conversion funnels and the fact that he's been able to sustain pretty high numbers is really impressive. You know, all of his advertising is so focused on donating. I'm a little worried that he's not building his email list enough for the longterm. One thing I was going to ask you is, I was doing this, all of these websites have these long introduction transition animations and it just drives me crazy because I think of all the people who are abandoning as it takes time to load. I'm just curious why. Is there a conference you all went to?
Tara McGowan: No, I, well I was gonna say that, I mean, I don't know the answer, but my educated guess would be that it's either the same firm behind it or the other firms have looked at the one that got up first and copied it. And so, you know, I think, and that's something where we sort of differ a little bit because I'm very much a messaging strategist and had been a producer in a prior life and and you really know the nuts and bolts of this work in a way that I admittedly don't. And I think that's really interesting because I think that we have at least on our side, but I'd love to hear if it's the same on the Republican side, have a real deficit in capacity, in talent that really understands the under-the-hood inner workings of how to run a really effective conversion funnel or campaign online, which is very different than just being able to break through with your message or content strategy. So I'm curious, is there also a deficit on your side or do you feel like there's actually quite a lot of people that think about that?
Eric Wilson: Well, I mean there is a real talent deficit on our side as well, it's something that keeps me up at night. And I'm always thinking of ways to help fix that. You know, the tactical and the technical stuff can be taught, right? You can learn that with YouTube, Skillshare, there are tons of platforms out there.
Tara McGowan: And it's actually where you have the data to prove that it makes a big difference. When, you know, you have a website that works, you A/B test and you see the difference in dollars, absolutely.
Eric Wilson: Yeah. Well, and so what I really try and advocate for is a change in mindset. And so this idea of digital thinking, digital-first thinking where we are testing and we're learning, we're testing, and we're optimizing, to borrow a phrase.
Tara McGowan: It's a great name for a newsletter.
Eric Wilson: So this idea that it, I think people get too hung up. You know, when they're asking me, Oh, I'm going to hire a digital director. Do I need to know, have someone who knows HTML and CSS and PHP? And I'm like, no, you need someone who understands that they're doing these things on a campaign for a reason. I always hold up these, these four principles that you should be raising money, getting attention, winning votes, and upsetting your opponent. And so you can lose the forest for the trees very quickly if you're not focused on those.
Tara McGowan: You also need to really understand your voice and your audience. I tell folks that, all the time, that in politics we don't have good industry benchmarks because it doesn't like e-commerce where you know, you do XYZ thing and the money pours in or what have you. It's, it's really about learning what's gonna work for you and your brand and the audience you're trying to reach and so you have to sort of start there and establish your own benchmarks.
Eric Wilson: Yeah, exactly. And it's really tough for us because you think about like a company like Coca-Cola, they have a billion sales every day. We have a one day of sales that's on Election Day. And so it's very hard to recalibrate in the political industry, but at the same time, not to diminish the very important issues that we're discussing, I'm talking about the consumption, but politics is being consumed as entertainment. And the sooner that candidates understand their role as entertainer, first and foremost -
Tara McGowan: As the President very much does.
Eric Wilson: And certainly folks like AOC. Right? Again, not to diminish qualifications or -
Tara McGowan: I would say there's a bit more substance, but I hear your point.
Eric Wilson: You've got to become familiar with this idea of how to build your audience to then mobilize them. And so if, you know, this is one of the things I tell candidates all the time is you should be doing your own social media. And if you're worried about saying something stupid, that's a you problem, it's not a social media problem. And so -
Tara McGowan: Because you're probably, on the other hand, worried about your intern or digital directors saying something stupid, but yeah.
Eric Wilson: If you have trust issues, that has nothing to do with social media, right?
Tara McGowan: And Mayor Pete does do his own Twitter I've heard.
Eric Wilson: Oh really? That's good to hear. And that's so critical for what we do then because you have that candidate's voice and you can repurpose it into email, into Facebook, into video, into graphics and all of the different things.
Tara McGowan: Right. I want to pivot a little bit and talk about misinformation spreading online and how quickly it can spread now and nefarious actors. And now we have deepfakes, which I don't know if you want to describe what those are, but I'm really curious, you know, how you're thinking about a landscape as it's changing and where the bar really sits now in terms of the ethics around content and messaging.
Eric Wilson: Yeah, well, I think we're, we're at the very dangerous point right now where voters and just citizens generally don't feel like they can trust their own senses because audio can be faked, video can be faked. Certainly we've seen text faked. Pictures can be faked. We all know about Photoshop, we're all learning about deepfake and, and AI and machine learning. FaceApp is a really good example of this.
Tara McGowan: A Russian-owned company that is absolutely taking facial recognition data.
Eric Wilson: Oddly, odd coincidence. You know, it used to be the case where if I could see a video of it, you know, you would wait to report on something until you could see the video and now you can't even do that. So I think it causes real problems. And if we, you know, we have a hard enough time having shared facts, we're about to be the point where we don't even have shared reality.
Tara McGowan: Who do you think is responsible for really ensuring that misinformation is not spread? Is it the platforms? Is it the government? It's, you know, a very hot and important debate right now.
Eric Wilson: You know, if it's a question between the platforms and the government, I certainly would put the responsibility at the doorstep of the platforms, right? Because they've got the talent, the minds, the billions of dollars to solve this problem. But it's clear that they don't want do that. They don't view that as their -
Tara McGowan: No, but no company, also, should be responsible for regulating themselves because there'll be, you know, inherent bias there.
Eric Wilson: No, I agree with that.
Tara McGowan: And that's what we're seeing now, right, is they are, they're responding to, to negative press and you know, a lot of stories and pressure that they're getting from the public.
Eric Wilson: They can handle the misinformation about their own platform. We've seen that that's something that they have the capability, they just don't want to use it for our democracy.
Tara McGowan: Right, and that is an excellent point.
Eric Wilson: And so the reality for people like us who are practitioners in this space is what do we do until that regulation or the platforms come up with a solution. And so I think campaigns need to be really good about capturing their own video and being more transparent. So, you know, when you create that air of secrecy, that's when conspiracies can proliferate. This is why people are storming Area 51, right? We don't know what's going on there. But anyway, so the campaigns need to be better about being open and capturing their own video. But I think journalists also set the tone on this and shouldn't amplify this. We saw them playing a very active role in amplifying misinformation in 2016 I think they're getting a little bit wiser, but you still see it all the time that they perpetuate this stuff.
Tara McGowan: There's still so much gray area there and we don't, we don't really yet know the impact that this will have. But, I do, I've been heartened to see that, you know, regulation of technology companies has actually become a bit of a bipartisan issue in Washington. And so I hope that that is a space where we can get things done there. So, you know, when folks like us and of our age and experience take over our parties, it won't be an issue, right?
Eric Wilson: It's just a matter of time.
Tara McGowan: Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. Really appreciate it. I hope you come back soon.
Eric Wilson: Always.
Tara McGowan: That's all we have for this week. If you want to take a deeper dive into the state of digital politics, and if you're not already a subscriber to our weekly newsletter, also called, For What It's Worth, you can sign up at anotheracronym.org/FWIW.