How has the process of running a modern political campaign changed since Barack Obama’s historic election in 2008? For our inaugural episode, Tara sat down with David Plouffe, former Campaign Manager for President Barack Obama’s ground-breaking presidential campaigns.
How has the process of running a modern political campaign changed since Barack Obama’s historic election in 2008? For our inaugural episode, Tara sat down with David Plouffe, former Campaign Manager for President Barack Obama’s ground-breaking presidential campaigns. Produced by Wonder Media Network
Tara McGowan: I'm Tara McGowan, founder and CEO of ACRONYM and you're listening to FWIW, a brand new podcast that takes you beyond the news and into the news feeds and other digital spaces where the race for the White House will be won.
Tara McGowan: I started ACRONYM not long after the 2016 elections to help the progressive movement make sense of and get smarter about leveraging the internet and social media to build power. Some of you may have read our newsletter also named for what it's worth or maybe you're meeting us for the first time. Regardless, we're so excited you decided to hang out with us through the show. We're going to lift the curtain and try to shed some light on how the 2020 election is already being fought online. And more broadly to take a look at how technology and the internet are continuously raising the stakes and changing the way political campaigns are run, or frankly, how they should be run in a digital age. We'll look back on some of the earliest campaigns to transform politics through their use of the internet and social media. And most importantly, we'll provide context for how 2020 campaigns are building moments in movements online right now in a high stakes contest for the highest seat of power.
Tara McGowan: We’re so excited to have David Plouffe join us, whether you're a political operative or just a political junkie, you likely know David is president Barack Obama's campaign manager during his historic 2008 election and since serving in the white house during both of Obama's terms, he's held roles in the private sector at places like Uber and now at the Chan Zuckerberg initiative. He also very recently joined the board of directors of acronym, which we're humbled and thrilled about. So David, thank you so much for joining us on our very first podcast.
David Plouffe: No, to be your first guest, Tara. It's nice that you have like a stegosaurus on your first shows. You I can talk about or how everything's changed over the years or not a dinosaur. Dave has not yet. Well, I'm really excited to have you here and I know that we could talk for hours about 2020 and the state of our politics right now and have, um, and uh, unfortunately we don't have hours.
Tara McGowan: So this podcast is really about how politics are changing in the digital age, how they have been and how they're continuing to change. And, uh, so let's give the listeners a what they want, why they're here. Um, so I want to start with 2007. Uh, take us back there. Um, it was a time where I think Facebook was only about three years old. Twitter was brand new. Um, I was not personally working in politics at that time. I was actually it as a journalist, but you know, everyone paying attention really looks back on that campaign is really transformative in our politics. And I'm really curious how you would describe, um, you know, how you approached building a new kind of and different kind of campaign in 2007?
David Plouffe: Well, we had to build a different kind of campaign because when Barack Obama got into that race, you knew you had Hillary Clinton of course, but also John Edwards, hard to believe now, but back then, super strong candidate and they had most of the political establishment, but most of the political support, including in the early States like Iowa and New Hampshire. So, um, and Obama had nothing. We had no national list. He had barely been out of the state of Illinois. So, but we knew we were going to have some enthusiasm. The beginning. So the question is how do you make it easy for people to get involved, not just financially, but to organize in volunteers. So, you know, the internet was really just coming into its own. And um, in terms of politics, I think it's fair to say we were probably the first digital-first campaign, but I had worked on some campaigns in 2006 including for governor Deval Patrick in Massachusetts who really used the internet.
David Plouffe: I thought in innovative ways and so we set out more out of necessity than innovation to say, how do we build a digital first campaign? Now, back then, to your point, Facebook was only on college campuses when that campaign started. Twitter I think started at some point during that campaign. It wasn't around the beginning. Instagram wasn't around, so for us that was the website. How do we make our website Barack obama.com kind of a one stop shop for people to get information, contribute, volunteer, bring really brilliant people in the campaign, developed our own social networking site called myBarackobama.com it shows you how fast things change. By 2012 you had to use Facebook for those kinds of interactions, but that was our approach, which is was the only way to scale, support and give supporters the ability to find each other to organize. Because one of the reasons Barack Obama became president was as we got deeper into the primary calendar, we were able to win States like Idaho and, and Minnesota and you know, Washington state and, and a lot of the caucus States by huge margins which provided as delegate leads.
David Plouffe: And honestly that's because our supporters months before we ever had staff on the ground, were using our website, our social media site to find each other to organize. We'd share lists with them. So I think that politics today now as a Facebook first endeavor, I think first and foremost, YouTube secondary. So back then in a way was easier for us back then because we didn't have multiple social media sites. It was really television, radio, newspaper, and then the internet. And again, we could just direct people to Barackobama.com. It's gotten much more complicated I think, um, you know, in, in a subsequent election cycle.
Tara McGowan: It absolutely has. And we're going to get into that. But you know, something that you said really strikes me, it was out of necessity that you really built a digital first campaign and, and you know, at that point in time we actually weren't using the word digital. I think it was new media, the director of new meetings. Exactly. Exactly. But I am curious because it as you mentioned, it was not your first political campaign either and you know, digital strategists today still run up against a lot of barriers to being able to get a seat at the table of campaigns and being able to really, you know, integrate, um, online strategies into sort of the overarching strategy of a campaign. But you really empowered digital from day one and you know, why do you think that you approached it, you know, with more of an open mind than a lot of political strategists who'd been in this work for awhile? There was tension in her own campaign. I mean basically the fundraisers thought that digital teams should just report to them. And same thing with the advertising team and the communications team. Sadly that hasn't changed. That hasn't changed, right? Yeah. I mean, I think that was the first time, you know, uh, folks from a technology background and a digital background were at the leadership table and it wasn't just to sort of produce their part of the work. I mean they became really, you know, I think about the way we announced our vice presidential selection or digital team help drive that. You know, we were the first presidential candidate to do that by text and vice president Biden by text. So it was, it was over time, you know, they were critical I think to the way we ran the campaign, but the year, right, that tension still existed.
David Plouffe: I think part of the reason it does is, you know, campaigns and businesses and you know, colleges, we all get our news clips in the morning. Well those are news clips. You walk through an airport, you see, you know, CNN or Fox or MSNBC. I think what's happening in the digital space is harder for people to measure. And I think that's one of the great reasons I think people are responding so well to your newsletter is it's really regulatory. It's, it's showing people what's happening and why not just the amount of money being spent with this strategy is, so I think in Oh eight and in 12 I think one of the good things about the Obama enterprises, we tried to step back and say let's meet people where they are and what we were getting back from our supporters, many who were young was, were sort of just interested in dealing with you through digital and online.
David Plouffe: That's the way we want to interact with you. And so I think that's really important. There's this debate in, in our party right now, and I think in politics generally, should you never run a TV ad or people still think we're doing too much in digital, you know, these are generally knowable things. I mean, how are people getting information and what's the best way? And usually it's a mix of things, but every day, much less, every cycle, more and more of the spend and the focus, the intensity should be digital first. So right now, I mean, I think about, I've been a part of a lot of campaigns. You think through I'm going to release my healthcare plan or my student loan plan. And I still think today and in politics there's a lot of campaigns that say, what's the speech we're going to give? What's the interview we're going to give? How are we going to leak it? As opposed to saying, what is my play on Facebook and Instagram and everything else is secondary to that. And honestly, I think Trump understands that and we need a nominee. I think you can understand that Obama was great about that. Like he, he kind of preferred anytime we were going to do something first directly to our supporters through like a digital ad. He loved that. I mean, he didn't want to go through the normal gatekeepers. Um, but I think a lot of struggle with that cause they're taught that like you have to do your interview with the New York times or the Des Moines register and you know, you've got to give a speech. What's far more important than the speeches? What's the 15 minute clip? You're gonna run on YouTube,
Tara McGowan: And it's, you know, it, it's also about being the underdog and having nothing to lose, right. Is you, you don't, you can't really afford to just rely on conventional wisdom. And I think we obviously saw that with your campaign in Oh seven we sat with Bernie's campaign in 2016 and I mean, and in 2015 and I definitely think that we saw it in Trump's campaign. And so, um, let's talk about Trump. Something we talk about quite a bit. Let's start with 2016 when I hear 2016 and Trump and I was obviously working in that election on the independent side for, for priorities USA. But the words that come to mind to a lot of folks are Facebook, Cambridge Analytica, Twitter, Russia. But I'm, I'm really curious what you think about his campaign in 16 and what you think they, they may be got right or where they sort of push the envelope in terms of their strategies and tactics.
David Plouffe: Well, it's interesting. Um, I actually spent some time with Brad Parscale after the Trump campaign. And so sorry. Um, but it was fascinating because he, I don't know if he would, um, now because the mythology takes hold, but what he said was, listen, a lot of the good things we did were by necessity. Like we didn't have the big Clinton campaign. We didn't have seven Facebook experts in house. I basically, when Facebook or Instagram or Twitter or YouTube would send in their team like they do for any big spender, we got to understand these presidential campaigns are massive advertisers. Um, they tended to listen to the platform experts and so they benefited from that in a way. I think the Clinton campaign may maybe didn't, but I think they were very good about experimenting with tons of different content. Again, probably more defined donors and voters than persuade people.
David Plouffe: But I think that was smart. And I also think they didn't seem to be as focused on, cause obviously until someone takes an action, if you're doing like Facebook ads, you can't personally identify them. But they obviously tried to do that through surveys and merchandise and petitions, and I'm going to vote for Trump, but they seemed okay if folks did and they just thought they were probably doing a world of good out there. So there's a lesson there that even sophisticated digital marketers, they're okay maybe not being able to measure everything. Uh, if you have some sense that it's working, but Trump himself understands that he doesn't have to give a speech to drive a new cycle, much less new cycles. He can just tweet. And I've been surprised he doesn't utilize Facebook more because that's where Mo more voters are. But obviously the entire political universe is on Twitter.
David Plouffe: So he uses that filter super effective. I mean, I do think Trump thinks social media first and I think that we can denigrate that because he doesn't give 50 minute policy speeches, but from a pure communication tactic, I think it's very smart. It suits him and I think we're going to see more of that. What concerns me now as you think about how they're going to build on that? Um, particularly the advantage of time they have, um, they basically have a year and a half to get ready for this general election. So I'm sure that from a content standpoint, an audience standpoint, uh, any number of, of innovations, um, they're probably going to be ahead of the democratic nominee. Now everybody says the Republicans have leapfrogged as well. We had a pretty good 2018. I always remember people take the, the Republicans kill us on messaging, lower taxes, strong national offense.
David Plouffe: It's like we tend to win a lot of election, so let's not over Pat them on the back. But I think at the end of the day, their orientation is digital first from a campaign standpoint and from a candidate standpoint. And that's important. Sometimes the campaign might want to be digital first and you have a candidate who's more analog. I think in this case, both sides of that equation are very focused on what matters and what doesn't. Um, and I, the one thing I know, we better have a nominee who thinks, and when I say Facebook, I mean it's not just Facebook, but I think you do have to look at Facebook first. Like, what am I doing today? The only thing that matters is what is the content I'm putting out on Facebook and YouTube? That's what matters. And the speech you're giving is just secondary to that in mind.
Tara McGowan: Oh, that's absolutely right. And I, I don't believe that all candidates are there. I think, uh, you know, we've been really delighted to see a lot of the campaigns in the democratic parties really pushing the envelope, innovating, investing more in digital and not just for the sake of, of increasing the budgets for advertising, but just thinking exactly to your point about reaching people where they are. Um, and, and communicating directly to voters. I mean, for better and for worse, truly, um, social media provides a platform to get your message across without a filter. Trump absolutely understands.
David Plouffe: Well, let's dig in. So what would that mean in practicality? So, um, we're here in, you know, October, November, a candidate for president on the democratic side has five events in Iowa. Is that those five events, maybe they have six media interviews with local Iowa media. They have a national interview. Maybe they do an MSNBC at night. They've got some big fundraising calls to make. Uh, you know, maybe they're doing a little debate preparation around there. The one thing I didn't mention is what is our Facebook and YouTube play today? So that has to be the most important thing. And that's where I don't think our candidates are all there yet.
Tara McGowan: Right. And it doesn't just mean having somebody film with the press conference or the event, right.
David Plouffe: It's got to be an original. That is, to me, that's the North star of every day. Yeah. I think Trump understands that. Certainly his campaign does. And I think if that gap doesn't close, that'll be an advantage for them.
Tara McGowan: Credit where credit's due. What are some of the smarter strategies and tactics you are seeing someone out of some of the democratic campaigns?
David Plouffe: Well, first of all, the spending is better and you know, they're starting now as most of the candidates are starting to, um, you know, undertake some traditional TV advertising, you know, which I understand, but let's hope that did not cannibalize the digital spends. So I'd like to see, I don't know what the appropriate answer is, but roughly I gotta think it's gotta be two thirds digital at least if not more this time, maybe close to 80%. I think that's smart. You know, I do think you're, you're starting to see candidates show a little bit more of their non political life through video and photos and Instagram, which I think is really, really important. I think some of the candidates have shown an ability really to fire back at Trump on Twitter, which I think is really important. [inaudible] strength. You gotta meet him where he is, uh, really, really well done.
David Plouffe: But I don't get the sense, and again, I'm not in these campaigns and I'm probably not watching him as careful use as you are day to day. I don't get the sense that any of them are waking up saying or have a plan for the next weekend. It's all based on the North star, the trunk of the tree is, you know, kind of our digital videos or infographics and everything else is there to support that as opposed to the digital work is there to support the other parts of the campaign. And that to me is the evolution that I'd like to see. I mean, to that point, if you are running one of the primary campaigns today, how would you approach building that differently than you did in Oh seven outside of just the, you know, the, the financial investment in digital to reach people. But in terms of structure or strategy, um, how would you, how would you approach that?
David Plouffe: I'm not saying you need to have like six different messages for six different platforms, but you need to have a strategy per platform, um, and that has to be cohesive and work together. I think you would be doing a, a tremendous amount of video, almost hour to hour, every three hours. I think you've gotta be cranking out video. And not just of the candidate of people reacting to him in the crowd or somebody signing a supporter card in Iowa. Like you want to lift that stuff up. I think you've got to do a lot more rapid response. One of the things I learned in Oh seven or eight there was all these rumors online that Obama was not really an American and he was a secret agent of Al-Qaida and you know, he hates the flag and all these things that we thought were silly and then people started to ask him about it.
David Plouffe: So I also think you need to have a rapid response big time. Um, you can't ignore anything and if you see something bubbling up, you know, you need to have the infrastructure to fire back and empower your volunteers to do the same. I think the other thing I do is make sure, think through the volunteer experience. So what would make our volunteers the most excited and productive? I still, I haven't certainly not seen the best app yet to grab content either for your candidate or to respond to an attack that folks can share in like three seconds. So I think really thinking about the user experience too, a lot of folks, uh, I think do an excellent job as we did in the Obama campaign, particularly in 12 to make the, um, fundraising experience frictionless and fast. But I think we've got to think through the volunteer experience, the sharing of content. How do we make that as easy for people as possible? Um, but I think the big thing would just be if you're having a campaign strategy meeting on a Saturday or Sunday where you do the senior staff conference call in the morning at night, it's not like, Hey, the times has this story. Should we give them an interview or does everybody have their edits in for the speech? You gotta do those things. It's like, okay, let's evaluate how today went on YouTube or, or Instagram. Um, and what do we need to do tomorrow?
Tara McGowan: You stepped outside of politics for the past few years. But, um, you have a new book out and a podcast. So I would love to hear, you know, what, what's made you kind of reenter and what are you sort of hoping to see over the next coming months as we, as we approached, uh, November, 2020
David Plouffe: and working with you, Tara, new great team at acronym of really it was Trump. So I think had Trump, not one, I'd probably be safely still ensconced outside politics is an interested citizen, but I thought through what, cause there's so many people doing great things. I'm not engaged in a primary campaign. Is there anything I can do of value? So one the book and I'm actually writing two books, uh, one is um, aimed at adults called a citizen's guide to defeating Donald Trump. The other is called ripples of hope, which is aimed at young kids who don't have a vote but have a voice. So it's really the most common question I've gotten in politics in the non digital age and in the digital age. What can I do? What else can I do? I certainly don't have all the answers, but I'm stepping back in these books as someone who's run successful campaigns, including presidential campaign saying, let me tell you why what you do matters.
David Plouffe: It's not like nice to have. It is core in a close race. And so I walked through the difference it can make and then a bunch of different ideas through how to get involved in the toxic waste dump that social media. But we all have to do it. Everybody needs to be thinking through, did I post two or three things today that can help the cause to traveling to battleground States, uh, to obviously to making sure people are not just registered, but voting early, creating content. I think we need a lot more people out there, millions of Americans creating content on their own, um, that people will trust more than what the campaign puts out with seems like propaganda mean anything fancy. You're doing it anyway, right? You're posting pictures of your kids or your dog, Pick up your phone. Ask them to speak for 30 seconds and post it. You, uh, engage in a volunteer shift, you come back. I did a great question event I did recently where someone's like, you know, it was, it was an engineer in San Francisco. So I just don't understand. Like I go off for four hours. I talked to four people. That's not efficient. I said, well, I get that and that's what it is. But let's say that you, two people you talked to might decide to vote or maybe they register when when 20,000 people are also volunteering that day. It's the aggregation that matters. So I get that, that that is not the most efficient use of four hours, but it's incredibly important. So I guess my message in the book is, um, this is on you. Like if you don't want Trump to get elected and you have the time and means to travel a battleground state, if you don't live there and you don't, you deserve Trump.
David Plouffe: If you aren't posting positive content about our candidate, you deserve Trump. So we have to own this. And then the podcast, it's a podcast called campaign HQ, is really to bring people a little deeper into the campaign just as you're doing it from a digital perspective. So folks understand the primary is about an acquisition of delegates and how are the candidates putting together the strategy to do that. And then we get to the general, I'm really excited to go really, really deep in the battleground States. So people who care so much about this election have a better sense of how Wisconsin and Arizona, North Carolina, how the chips may fall there. So, um, but, but I'm really passionate about, I look back on 2016 I wasn't involved in politics then. I don't think I posted anything on Twitter or Facebook maybe even gave any interview that was about like Hillary Clinton's plan to make college more affordable, uh, or her climate change plan or her plan to cut taxes for the middle class.
David Plouffe: I was bitching about Trump as we all were. And so I'm, I'm, we have to fight back against the Trump lies, which are going to be, I think, accelerated this time to a degree that's going to be pretty scary through his own campaign and through foreign governments as he's trying to ask for their assistance. But I'm most passionate about us sharing the positive case because we've certainly thought this in the Obama years. It's not enough to win much less people motivated to solely be against something. We got to get people for something. That doesn't mean our candidate has to check all the boxes for people. I mean, the truth is, hold your nose, vote counts the same as someone who's wearing your tee shirt and has your bumper sticker on the car. And we got to understand that. Like I think sometimes we can be a little bit out of touch in that regard.
David Plouffe: So I think the most important conversations in this campaign will be the one a volunteer has on or offline with someone who says, you know what, I hate Trump, or I don't like Trump or I may not vote or I just, you know, the truth is I don't like your candidate. And you've got to say, you know what, I don't like this about him either. But all I know is the only way to get rid of the guy. And I know they'll get us back in the Paris climate deal and you care about climate change. I don't know if they'll do anything else good. Like it ain't the West wing, right? Like that kind of conversations what we have to be. Okay.
Tara McGowan: It is, it's on all of us. And one of my favorite lines from president Obama is that yes we can is always been about the we. And it really is. And I think, um, I am, I personally and I know our team in acronym, we're so grateful you're back in politics. I think your voice is so valuable, um, and really grateful that you came on the show. Thanks for all the great work you do to make our country better and fairer, and hopefully we'll have a big win next November. That's all we have for this week. Thanks again for listening. If you want to take a deeper dive into the 2020 race and how it's playing out online, make sure you're subscribed to ACRONYM's weekly email newsletter. David is, for what it's worth, you can sign up at anotheracronym.org/fwiw